Comments on: Moral Purity, Hypocrisy, and the Plight of Homosexual Conservatives http://saintgasoline.com/2008/12/23/moral-purity-hypocrisy-and-the-plight-of-homosexual-conservatives/ An exploration of skepticism, science, atheism, humor, and feces. Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:22:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: casey http://saintgasoline.com/2008/12/23/moral-purity-hypocrisy-and-the-plight-of-homosexual-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-1357 casey Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:34:25 +0000 http://saintgasoline.com/?p=28#comment-1357 Religious conviction is what leads to these contradictions. You referred to it yourself but glossed over it in your apparent zeal to promote the cleanliness theory. Libertarians are "conservative" too, but even when they're covered in filth I doubt they feel any urge to preach against homosexuality. Religious conviction is what leads to these contradictions. You referred to it yourself but glossed over it in your apparent zeal to promote the cleanliness theory. Libertarians are “conservative” too, but even when they’re covered in filth I doubt they feel any urge to preach against homosexuality.

]]> By: Craig http://saintgasoline.com/2008/12/23/moral-purity-hypocrisy-and-the-plight-of-homosexual-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-1356 Craig Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:06:03 +0000 http://saintgasoline.com/?p=28#comment-1356 Remember the study at the University of Georgia, where they separated male volunteers into "homophobic" and "non-homophobic" groups based on standard psychological tests? They showed both groups gay porn and straight porn videos, and measured the results of arousal using instruments that gauged blood flow in the penis (standard test for attraction in pedophile cases). The result? 70% of the "homophobic" group were strongly aroused, versus 20% for the "non-homophobic" group. What also happened was that the "homophobic" group was aroused 20% less to the straight porn, which was also shown to both groups. Real life? As a gay man, I've used that study often when battling bigots in person and on the net. In discussion groups on the net, I've frequently ended a conversation with, "Sir, am I to believe you are among the 70%?" after siting the study. Universally, that ends the conversation because they instantly leave the discussion, apparently hitting too close to home and their truth revealed to all. I have also used this twice in person. A coworker loved to use all kinds of gay epithets around me whenever he talked. Enough is enough, and I started showing up to work wearing gay pride shirts, even a pride necklace once to make a point. He still didn't get it. So I related the study to him, and said that I used that to stop homophobic remarks on the net. He froze, stared blankly for a minute, and said, "OK ... I used to experiment when I was young ... and I used to cross dress!" Could have knocked me over with a feather. I wasn't accusing him, I was just telling him about the story. Wow. Yes, this is very, very true about self-loathing gays and homophobia, and I am beginning to believe that ever last one of those freaks leading the anti-gay rights charge are flaming queens that need to just come out and get over themselves. They're really getting pathetic to watch. By the way, the other homophobe I mentioned? He also said that he cross dressed, and the last time I talked to him, he called me from a gay pride rally and said, "I don't care if anyone knows I'm here!" Sad, because they're both good people, just acting out of self loathing and desperation. This one opened up because a family member of his was gay, and I gave him a ton of material to read and it really opened his eyes that being gay is not evil, just genetics - and a really good thing. Remember the study at the University of Georgia, where they separated male volunteers into “homophobic” and “non-homophobic” groups based on standard psychological tests? They showed both groups gay porn and straight porn videos, and measured the results of arousal using instruments that gauged blood flow in the penis (standard test for attraction in pedophile cases). The result? 70% of the “homophobic” group were strongly aroused, versus 20% for the “non-homophobic” group. What also happened was that the “homophobic” group was aroused 20% less to the straight porn, which was also shown to both groups.

Real life? As a gay man, I’ve used that study often when battling bigots in person and on the net. In discussion groups on the net, I’ve frequently ended a conversation with, “Sir, am I to believe you are among the 70%?” after siting the study. Universally, that ends the conversation because they instantly leave the discussion, apparently hitting too close to home and their truth revealed to all.

I have also used this twice in person. A coworker loved to use all kinds of gay epithets around me whenever he talked. Enough is enough, and I started showing up to work wearing gay pride shirts, even a pride necklace once to make a point. He still didn’t get it. So I related the study to him, and said that I used that to stop homophobic remarks on the net.

He froze, stared blankly for a minute, and said, “OK … I used to experiment when I was young … and I used to cross dress!”

Could have knocked me over with a feather. I wasn’t accusing him, I was just telling him about the story. Wow. Yes, this is very, very true about self-loathing gays and homophobia, and I am beginning to believe that ever last one of those freaks leading the anti-gay rights charge are flaming queens that need to just come out and get over themselves. They’re really getting pathetic to watch.

By the way, the other homophobe I mentioned? He also said that he cross dressed, and the last time I talked to him, he called me from a gay pride rally and said, “I don’t care if anyone knows I’m here!” Sad, because they’re both good people, just acting out of self loathing and desperation. This one opened up because a family member of his was gay, and I gave him a ton of material to read and it really opened his eyes that being gay is not evil, just genetics - and a really good thing.

]]> By: Port Apathy » Blog Archive » Moral Outrage http://saintgasoline.com/2008/12/23/moral-purity-hypocrisy-and-the-plight-of-homosexual-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-1325 Port Apathy » Blog Archive » Moral Outrage Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:31:08 +0000 http://saintgasoline.com/?p=28#comment-1325 [...] was reading an article over at Saint Gasoline about being judgmental of others and found a very interesting study on that [...] [...] was reading an article over at Saint Gasoline about being judgmental of others and found a very interesting study on that [...]

]]> By: Saint Gasoline http://saintgasoline.com/2008/12/23/moral-purity-hypocrisy-and-the-plight-of-homosexual-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-1253 Saint Gasoline Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:54:02 +0000 http://saintgasoline.com/?p=28#comment-1253 One more thing, Marnee. One explanation I forgot to mention is that evangelical doesn't always translate to more conservative. It could be that these evangelicals are simply more liberal and less conservative. One more thing, Marnee. One explanation I forgot to mention is that evangelical doesn’t always translate to more conservative. It could be that these evangelicals are simply more liberal and less conservative.

]]> By: Saint Gasoline http://saintgasoline.com/2008/12/23/moral-purity-hypocrisy-and-the-plight-of-homosexual-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-1252 Saint Gasoline Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:51:11 +0000 http://saintgasoline.com/?p=28#comment-1252 Hey Marnee, I don't think the generational gap needs to be explained. The only difference between liberals and conservatives is that conservatives tend to emphasize purity and authority <i>in addition to</i> concerns about equality and harm. Older evangelicals make a much bigger issue about purity and authority issues, but the younger ones also care about these things, just to not as great a degree. (The typical conservative scores all the moral categories about even, whereas the typical liberal tends to put a lot more weight on harm reduction and equality.) So really the young evangelicals are a better representation of the common conservative mindset. I think what you'd find is that they still rate such issues much higher than the typical younger generation of liberals. There's also the conventional wisdom that young people tend to be more liberal and become more conservative with age. Not sure if there's any truth to that, though. Hey Marnee,

I don’t think the generational gap needs to be explained. The only difference between liberals and conservatives is that conservatives tend to emphasize purity and authority in addition to concerns about equality and harm. Older evangelicals make a much bigger issue about purity and authority issues, but the younger ones also care about these things, just to not as great a degree. (The typical conservative scores all the moral categories about even, whereas the typical liberal tends to put a lot more weight on harm reduction and equality.) So really the young evangelicals are a better representation of the common conservative mindset. I think what you’d find is that they still rate such issues much higher than the typical younger generation of liberals.

There’s also the conventional wisdom that young people tend to be more liberal and become more conservative with age. Not sure if there’s any truth to that, though.

]]> By: Spencer http://saintgasoline.com/2008/12/23/moral-purity-hypocrisy-and-the-plight-of-homosexual-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-1251 Spencer Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:50:37 +0000 http://saintgasoline.com/?p=28#comment-1251 It's also worth considering that some homosexual men, particularly in conservative societies, often don't realise that they actually are homosexual until much later in life. It's possible these men were already well on their way to becoming major conservative figureheads before realising they were homosexual, and consequently had to face the choice of either alienation from their friends and family, and the end of their career, or hiding this "dirty" secret about themselves. Their choice was hypocritical and cowardly, to be sure, but is it such a surprise that the people who attack minorities are cowards? It’s also worth considering that some homosexual men, particularly in conservative societies, often don’t realise that they actually are homosexual until much later in life. It’s possible these men were already well on their way to becoming major conservative figureheads before realising they were homosexual, and consequently had to face the choice of either alienation from their friends and family, and the end of their career, or hiding this “dirty” secret about themselves. Their choice was hypocritical and cowardly, to be sure, but is it such a surprise that the people who attack minorities are cowards?

]]> By: Marnee http://saintgasoline.com/2008/12/23/moral-purity-hypocrisy-and-the-plight-of-homosexual-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-1247 Marnee Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:30:58 +0000 http://saintgasoline.com/?p=28#comment-1247 "Anyone can readily recognize that liberals and conservatives tend to be diametrically opposed when it comes to ethical questions." So how do you explain the evangelical generational gap? Y'know, the one in which people say the religious right is crumbling politically and the new, young evangelicals care more about poverty and the environment, eschewing "traditional conservative" concerns like homosexuality and baby-killing. How did this major psychological shift occur? Or do you think the shift is a myth? “Anyone can readily recognize that liberals and conservatives tend to be diametrically opposed when it comes to ethical questions.”

So how do you explain the evangelical generational gap? Y’know, the one in which people say the religious right is crumbling politically and the new, young evangelicals care more about poverty and the environment, eschewing “traditional conservative” concerns like homosexuality and baby-killing. How did this major psychological shift occur? Or do you think the shift is a myth?

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