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Lizz
29 August, 2009 at 4:20 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I believe you mean “inevitable mortality” not “inevitable immortality.” I wouldn’t mention it, but it threw me off for a moment.
And mortality doesn’t have to be scary – even if you lack any hope for anything beyond it. I’ve been unconcious, and I don’t honestly remember being terribly concerned with whatever oblivion I was dealing with – since really, I didn’t register anything. I figure we live while we’re alive, and if I feel/think/know nothing when I’m dead, then I won’t be around to care, so it won’t really matter. (That being said – I, too, enjoy life very much and would appreciate it being longer rather than shorter.)
urbster1
29 August, 2009 at 4:46 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Actually, although it’s a long shot, we could potentially have technology within the next 50 years that would let us start uploading our minds into huge neural networks, like the Internet but with brains. I’m not totally crazy because Richard Carrier defends such a notion in this interview http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Interview-with-Richard-Car-by-Ben-Dench-090803-799.html (check page 2), but then again such things may also be a much longer way off, or never… especially if we end up in a nuclear holocaust because some crazy religious fanatics go nuts with bombs
Saint Gasoline
30 August, 2009 at 11:54 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I think there are several problems with the whole neural network form of life extension. Just as a thought experiment, assume you upload your mind to a neural network. Obviously, “you” won’t be experiencing the thoughts and feelings of your uploaded mind, as you’ll still have your own, which is operated by your brain. In this sense, you can ask, is the neural network really me? What sense does it make to say something is you if you can’t have access to its subjective, phenomenological experiences?
I also have my doubts that any form of life extension will occur within 50 years. This sort of prediction makes sense in the context of more predictable technological areas like computers, but the biological and medical sciences do not move ahead in such a consistent, predictable manner. In the 80s, for instance, it was thought AIDs would be cured by now, as well as cancer. I do believe, of course, that eventually we will achieve several of these life extension milestones, but I highly doubt this will occur within my lifetime, even though I very much wish it would!
At any rate, even these life extension technologies would not guarantee us the immortality we seek. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a way to overcome entropy and its ultimate culmination in the heat death of the universe. At best we can probably expect life spans that last thousands of years, potentially.
Rob
30 August, 2009 at 12:08 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I agree that the idea that we continue to live on as our molecules or energy is idiotic. What makes us “us” is our particular pattern existing in spacetime. When that pattern is gone, so are we.
Thanks for the Carrier link urbster, I’m a fan-boy.
I have great faith in Tipler’s Omega Point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point_(Tipler)
Cyber Nomad (aka God)
2 September, 2009 at 9:25 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
This is very interesting. My beloved pet recently died and I was very sad and angry. Before he got sick he ate, slept, pooped, occaisonally did something stupid that made me laugh, and repeat. But after his euthanization, I angrily thought “well, what was the point! why was he here!”, perhaps it would have been better if he had never been brought into existence by the pet mill that created him for profit and then end up suffering 6 years later.
But then I remembered how much he cheered me up and helped me through a particularly depressing point in my life.
The point is, none of us exist in a vacuum, and we each contribute to the cumulative existence of life on this planet. Its our choice how we choose to express our brief part of it.
Cyber Nomad (aka God)
2 September, 2009 at 9:29 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
By the way, I think death is more difficult for atheists, because we truly understand that that is the end. I loathe to hear or utter the standard social grace “well, their in a better place”, unless the individual was actually suffering in existence, thus rendering the cold damp earth a preferred alternative.
Engineer-Poet
3 September, 2009 at 7:44 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
How does anyone who ISN’T you have access to your subjective experiences? They can only tell what you say and do. If the upload’s behavior looks like meat-you, there’s going to be little dispute that there is, if not identity, a large amount of commonality.
I’m not that much into the idea of uploading, but I do recognize that neural interfaces are going to be too useful to be just one-way portals to cyber-existence. Nothing says you have to upload once and that’s it; you can put an increasing amount of yourself into cyberspace, doing things that meat-you finds it difficult or impossible to do through the old channels and communing with your meat-portion (or compensating for its loss of performance by taking over functions). That will be your subjective, phenomenological connection to the part of you that exists as bits.
I’m far from fixated on the idea. Quite the contrary; I was looking at a burial plot the other day. My attitude about death at this point is shrug. I’ve enjoyed myself, I intend to enjoy myself more, leave some work behind, and others will get to pick it up and see it with new eyes as I have seen the work of those who came before me. And so it goes.
Blinkfenix
7 September, 2009 at 6:35 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I have had the contemplation of life after death. Especially being brought up in a ” bible thumping” family. I hate their religious views and have since switched to a more realistic religion of universal balance and no actual god or entity (and no not budhism). and have since tried to rationalize to my family that i do not beleive in life after death, that we live our life and then we become worm food. That there is no experiences after that but possibly right before we die we go into what seems like a neverending dream which is my theory, a dream of things that are unrealistic and nostalgic, because we are probably releasing some death chemical into our brains. As any other chemical we self induce. The comment my family had was actually showing signs of intelligence ” what a sad life you must lead, to be living for nothing, to live and know that when you die nothing shall happen, that you have lived and there was no point in you living”. which consequently made me ponder my own existence and if there was any point to it. I have only been able to come up with 2 scenario’s 1) What is the point of life? and 2) The possible point of life- to enrich other peoples lives as well as your own, and to enrich yourself with experiences of life. to which the conclusion is still an inevitable death to which there finds to be no point in life.
(and just for clarification i am in no way emo or suicidal just contemplative)
Blinkfenix
7 September, 2009 at 6:53 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I do have a question though that occured to me after my entry. How would you change or live differently if you knew indefinitley that there was an after life. How would you choose to live knowing that 100% you were going to an afterlife. And to further such a question to the completely absurd- What would you do if there was a Heaven or hell, and knew that depending on your lifestyle you would enevitably end up in either or?
Myself I’d rather not have an after life, but considering the question i imposed, i would probably try to make my life count just a little more, and as for heaven and hell , try to be really bad or really good, hoping of course if i was really bad id end up as a devils minion or some high place in hell where im not tortured, although the worse i am the more id probably be tortured of course, as is the the view of the christian society. but the general public tend to beleive that the worse you are the higher up in hell you’ll be, like a general or something. But i’ll stop my babbling.